I am sorry but you are wrong. The Germans are the masters of self-deprecation due to spawning the devil in the first half of the 20th century. Nobody can compete with us in this category.
Very interesting take. As Mike said, it's a bit of a surprise to foreigners like me to hear that the English have anything akin to an inferiority complex; and yet the British media, whenever they have spoken about English affairs, is admittedly very anti-patriotic. I've noticed (as did John Steinbeck) that Americans give more credence to foreign observations than they let off: I can see where it comes from.
Britain has always struck me as a place where business and mercantile interests hold greater sway over life than any cultural Englishness. The latter is more of a byproduct, which perhaps is why comedians like the Monty Python guys can make it come off as amusing and absurd in comedy, when in other cultures it would be less so. (Except for Italians: which may explain why the English have been rather fond of them, despite religious differences) It's all so unintentional; and yet Wallace and Gromit saved the Wensleydale industry. (If that story wasn't just make belief: great cheese, I must say! I don't share the disdain for British cuisine) Looking at Britain today, it feels like one big hotel. I wonder where this came from. Was it a symptom of Britain converting to business-friendlier Protestantism? Or, like the Netherlands, it was always just a place with a lot of sailors? The English appear to have a natural talent for it, so I don't know if class explains it. Though I'm happy to be corrected.
This makes me all the more respectful of what Tolkien accomplished in trying to fill this void you mention with something akin to Dante. I think he succeeded in the creation part, but the English have been slow to recognize it for what it is. We don't expect a work of literature like this to just appear in today's world, any more than we expect saints to perform miracles in front of our faces.
Yes, I can understand your puzzlement at this apparent English self-loathing. I can't exactly account for it myself although I have been aware of it all my adult life. The best I can do to get to the nub of it is these lines from my essay: "......From whence anyway does a nation’s self image arise? In modern times it is probably fair to say that it arises primarily from certain sections of its middle class; from journalists, artists, academics and celebrities. Whilst it is inherent in any country’s news media to hone in on the downside of anything and everything, the English chattering class is unique in the degree of it disdain...."
It used to be implicitly understood that English culture was the best in the world and that the rest of the world should just adopt it. And by and large it did adopt large parts of it. Thus, many aspects of English culture are now simply taken for granted as "how civilized people behave".
In fact in most of the rest of the world "local culture" means "those practices that did not come from England" or even "the local spin on some English practice".
For example, you complained how the behavior of English football hooligans make English culture look bad. Meanwhile the fact that the whole world is obsessed with a game invented at English boarding schools was taken completely for granted.
PS....Can't remember if I touched on football hooliganism in the essay but if I did it was only briefly in passing. That's not at all what my article was about.
I think we're talking about two different things here - both of which are true. You are talking about English culture's very successful export of itself in its 19th century century heyday.
But I was talking about something else..... I'm not sure whether you have read my essay (you don't refer to any of the substance of it or even the famous Orwell quote) but I can assure you - as a 73 year old Englishman - that the way I tell it is how the English intelligentsia and media culture has always trashed Englishness (particularly relative to Frenchness, Celtic fringeness among others)....crap food, crap dress-sense crap at sexiness etc etc etc. Things have possibly changed a bit in the 21st c. but the same old clichés still get trotted out regularly in British journalism.
That's because all the parts of English culture the English intelligentsia liked were exported to the rest of the world.
Whereas "Frenchness", "Celticness", etc., consists of whatever the local elites could find in local traditions, or just make up, to take a stand against being completely subsumed by English culture.
I've never been to England and have very little English blood, but just looking at literature alone it never occurred to me that the people who produced William Shakespeare, Jane Austen, George Eliot, Charles Dickens, Arthur Conan Doyle, and Agathie Christie would ever doubt their place in our global culture.
I did actually say that in the text you know....."compare the two as megacities – Greater Paris and Greater London – and the ranking is radically reversed: you have, respectively, perhaps the ugliest and almost certainly the least ugly European metropolis."
Incidentally where did you come across this essay?.... you are not a subscriber (although I hope you will be.)
I am sorry but you are wrong. The Germans are the masters of self-deprecation due to spawning the devil in the first half of the 20th century. Nobody can compete with us in this category.
Yes I guess that must be true. But it's somewhat offset by a mixture of awe and envy of your post war Mittelstand.
Wait - what about the states? I think we qualify! Obama went on several apology tours!! 🤣
Very interesting take. As Mike said, it's a bit of a surprise to foreigners like me to hear that the English have anything akin to an inferiority complex; and yet the British media, whenever they have spoken about English affairs, is admittedly very anti-patriotic. I've noticed (as did John Steinbeck) that Americans give more credence to foreign observations than they let off: I can see where it comes from.
Britain has always struck me as a place where business and mercantile interests hold greater sway over life than any cultural Englishness. The latter is more of a byproduct, which perhaps is why comedians like the Monty Python guys can make it come off as amusing and absurd in comedy, when in other cultures it would be less so. (Except for Italians: which may explain why the English have been rather fond of them, despite religious differences) It's all so unintentional; and yet Wallace and Gromit saved the Wensleydale industry. (If that story wasn't just make belief: great cheese, I must say! I don't share the disdain for British cuisine) Looking at Britain today, it feels like one big hotel. I wonder where this came from. Was it a symptom of Britain converting to business-friendlier Protestantism? Or, like the Netherlands, it was always just a place with a lot of sailors? The English appear to have a natural talent for it, so I don't know if class explains it. Though I'm happy to be corrected.
This makes me all the more respectful of what Tolkien accomplished in trying to fill this void you mention with something akin to Dante. I think he succeeded in the creation part, but the English have been slow to recognize it for what it is. We don't expect a work of literature like this to just appear in today's world, any more than we expect saints to perform miracles in front of our faces.
Yes, I can understand your puzzlement at this apparent English self-loathing. I can't exactly account for it myself although I have been aware of it all my adult life. The best I can do to get to the nub of it is these lines from my essay: "......From whence anyway does a nation’s self image arise? In modern times it is probably fair to say that it arises primarily from certain sections of its middle class; from journalists, artists, academics and celebrities. Whilst it is inherent in any country’s news media to hone in on the downside of anything and everything, the English chattering class is unique in the degree of it disdain...."
It used to be implicitly understood that English culture was the best in the world and that the rest of the world should just adopt it. And by and large it did adopt large parts of it. Thus, many aspects of English culture are now simply taken for granted as "how civilized people behave".
In fact in most of the rest of the world "local culture" means "those practices that did not come from England" or even "the local spin on some English practice".
For example, you complained how the behavior of English football hooligans make English culture look bad. Meanwhile the fact that the whole world is obsessed with a game invented at English boarding schools was taken completely for granted.
PS....Can't remember if I touched on football hooliganism in the essay but if I did it was only briefly in passing. That's not at all what my article was about.
I think we're talking about two different things here - both of which are true. You are talking about English culture's very successful export of itself in its 19th century century heyday.
But I was talking about something else..... I'm not sure whether you have read my essay (you don't refer to any of the substance of it or even the famous Orwell quote) but I can assure you - as a 73 year old Englishman - that the way I tell it is how the English intelligentsia and media culture has always trashed Englishness (particularly relative to Frenchness, Celtic fringeness among others)....crap food, crap dress-sense crap at sexiness etc etc etc. Things have possibly changed a bit in the 21st c. but the same old clichés still get trotted out regularly in British journalism.
That's because all the parts of English culture the English intelligentsia liked were exported to the rest of the world.
Whereas "Frenchness", "Celticness", etc., consists of whatever the local elites could find in local traditions, or just make up, to take a stand against being completely subsumed by English culture.
No it's because the English intelligentsia are brimfull of self-hate. More so probably than any other national intelligentsia anywhere in the world.
And to think the English invented heavy metal!
I've never been to England and have very little English blood, but just looking at literature alone it never occurred to me that the people who produced William Shakespeare, Jane Austen, George Eliot, Charles Dickens, Arthur Conan Doyle, and Agathie Christie would ever doubt their place in our global culture.
"I too am British, Mr. Pine." She remarked, as if this were a grievence they shared. I've forgotten the British author. The man who wrote spy novels.
I did actually say that in the text you know....."compare the two as megacities – Greater Paris and Greater London – and the ranking is radically reversed: you have, respectively, perhaps the ugliest and almost certainly the least ugly European metropolis."
Incidentally where did you come across this essay?.... you are not a subscriber (although I hope you will be.)
Thanks.... and thanks for subscribing.